Where Real Estate Gets Its Dirt

Should Sellers Pick Pocket Listings?

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

This week, Rob and Greg are joined by Professor Darren Hayunga of the University of Georgia to discuss his research on pocket listings and private sales. Using 20 years of Dallas-Fort Worth MLS data, Darren explains why his findings challenge conventional wisdom about off-market transactions, how Clear Cooperation Policy impacted pocket sales, and why sellers may not be sacrificing value by avoiding the open market. The conversation explores market efficiency, buyer and seller behavior, luxury listings, and the broader implications for the ongoing industry debate around private listing networks and consumer choice. 

Key Takeaways

  • Professor Darren Hayunga’s study found that pocket sales in Dallas-Fort Worth generated an average premium of roughly 1.7%, with luxury properties showing significantly higher premiums. 
  • The research suggests sellers may benefit from avoiding what Darren calls the “negotiation tax” associated with traditional MLS listing strategies. 
  • Clear Cooperation Policy largely eliminated the pricing advantage of pocket sales, but did not eliminate their use. 
  • Pocket listings became more common over time, growing substantially after the early 2010s despite industry efforts to curb them. 
  • The discussion highlights the challenges of measuring off-market transactions and the importance of comparing truly comparable properties when conducting housing research. 
  • Rob and Greg debate whether the continued popularity of private sales reflects consumer preference, brokerage incentives, or broader market efficiencies.

Links

Contact Professor Hayunga

Pocket Sales in the Housing Market: Selection, Outcomes and Policy

Connect with Rob and Greg

Rob’s Website 

Greg’s Website 

Watch us on YouTube

Our Sponsors:

Cotality 

Notorious VIP

The Giant Steps Job Board 

Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios

NAR Midyear Toothpaste

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

Rob and Greg recap the 2026 NAR Midyear meetings in Washington, D.C., discussing the changing role of NAR in MLS policy, the ongoing debate around private listings and exclusive inventory, and the varying reactions from MLS leaders across the country. They also examine how brokers, MLSs, and portals are redefining their relationships as the industry continues to grapple with cooperation, consumer access, and listing distribution. Later, they discuss Mike DelPrete’s recent industry webinar and dive into a broader philosophical debate about whether the MLS should function primarily as a professional cooperation platform or a consumer-facing marketing tool.

Key Takeaways

  • Greg shares observations from NAR Midyear, including conversations with MLS leaders about private listings, office exclusives, and broker cooperation.
  • Many MLSs outside major markets are not experiencing the same level of disruption from private listing strategies seen in places like Southern California.
  • Rob and Greg discuss whether MLSs should create listing statuses or tools to accommodate exclusive inventory while preserving cooperation.
  • The conversation explores Zillow’s growing influence in listing policy following NAR’s reduced role in MLS governance.
  • Mike DelPrete’s webinar sparks discussion about the industry’s biggest unresolved questions around private listings and MLS purpose.
  • Rob argues that the MLS should primarily serve as a business-to-business cooperation platform, while Greg challenges that view by emphasizing the MLS’s longstanding consumer-facing role.
  • The episode examines how internet distribution, IDX, and syndication transformed listing marketing and agent behavior over the past two decades.

Connect with Rob and Greg

Rob’s Website 

Greg’s Website 

Watch us on YouTube

Our Sponsors:

Cotality 

Notorious VIP

The Giant Steps Job Board 

Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios

What Is the MLS, Anyway? 

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

Rob and Greg recap their time at the Signal conference before diving into one of the biggest debates facing organized real estate: what exactly is the MLS supposed to be? The conversation centers on “Pool,” ThousandWatt’s thought experiment for a national home exchange that would compensate listing contributors and charge data users. Rob argues the concept reveals a growing belief that the MLS is primarily a data repository, while Greg sees it as a modernized form of cooperation. From there, the discussion expands into the purpose of MLSs, the difference between cooperation and marketing, portal participation, private listing debates, government intervention, and whether the industry is losing sight of its core mission.

Key Takeaways

  • Rob discusses his new consulting engagement with Compass and why he believes independent opinions remain critical.
  • Highlights from the Signal conference, including the branding lessons behind Liquid Death and ThousandWatt’s “Pool” concept.
  • Rob reveals Pool closely mirrors the Nexus MLS model he previously attempted to build.
  • A debate over whether MLSs are fundamentally data repositories or broker cooperatives.
  • Greg and Rob clash over the relationship between cooperation, compensation, marketing, and listing distribution.
  • Discussion of off-market listings, seller choice, “velvet rope” marketing, and government involvement in real estate policy.
  • Why both hosts believe the industry needs a clearer answer to the question: “What is the MLS?”

Links

1000Watt’s Pool Website

Greg’s ‘Limited Exposure’ Article 

Rob’s Analysis of Connecticut Law 

Compass on Private Listings

Connect with Rob and Greg

Rob’s Website 

Greg’s Website 

Watch us on YouTube

Our Sponsors:

Cotality 

Notorious VIP

The Giant Steps Job Board 

Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios

Katrina Romatowski: Rethinking Homeownership for the Next Generation with reSpace

The Listing Bits Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

Greg Robertson sits down with Katrina Romatowski, founder and CEO of reSpace, to discuss a new approach to housing affordability through co-homeownership. Drawing on nearly three decades in real estate, development, and housing advocacy, Katrina explains how reSpace redesigns homes into private suites with shared common spaces and enables buyers to purchase fractional ownership interests. The conversation explores affordability, homeownership as a wealth-building tool, aging-in-place design, MLS challenges, and the growing need for alternative housing models. 

Key Takeaways

  • Katrina grew up throughout the Pacific Northwest, worked in construction from a young age, and built a career spanning real estate sales, development, and brokerage. 
  • Her real estate company was founded as a social purpose corporation, leading to the creation of a nonprofit focused on housing and mentorship for people exiting incarceration and recovery programs. 
  • The idea for reSpace emerged after selling a small infill home for nearly $1 million and questioning who could realistically afford it. 
  • Inspiration came from fractional ownership models such as Picasso, but Katrina wanted to apply the concept to primary housing rather than luxury vacation homes. 
  • reSpace creates homes with private suites that include ensuite bathrooms, closets, workspace areas, and personal amenities, paired with shared kitchens and living spaces. 
  • Buyers purchase an ownership interest in the property, allowing them to live in high-cost neighborhoods at a price point closer to renting an apartment. 
  • The model is designed to help first-time buyers, retirees, siblings, friends, and other groups gain access to ownership while maintaining independence. 
  • Katrina argues that homeownership remains one of the most important pathways to building middle-class wealth and that affordability challenges are increasingly shutting people out of that opportunity. 
  • A major hurdle for reSpace has been gaining MLS support for fractional ownership listings, despite existing standards that support partial-interest ownership categories. 
  • Current projects include The Grove in Seattle’s Ballard neighborhood and a historic mansion redevelopment in Leschi, with plans to expand through technology and partnerships. 

Links

reSpace

Snapshot by reSpace

Katrina Romatowski on LinkedIn

Links

Sponsors

Aligned Showings — MLS-owned showing software built to simplify scheduling, improve communication, and keep MLS data where it belongs.

Giant Steps Job Board – Built for organized real estate and PropTech, not generic tech bros and recruiters who don’t know what an MLS is.

Production and editing services by:

Sunbound Studios

What Happens When Zillow Stops Playing Nice?

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

Greg revisits his “Poking the Bear” article and argues that the industry may be underestimating what happens if Zillow is pushed into becoming a direct competitor. Using a Nike-versus-Hyatt branding analogy, Greg and Rob debate whether a Zillow brokerage, franchise, or even MLS would be a nightmare scenario or simply the next stage of competition.

The conversation expands into a broader discussion about MLS infrastructure, IDX, cooperation, listing distribution, and whether the industry is protecting outdated systems at the expense of innovation. Rob argues that the industry’s real asset is cooperation, not marketing, while Greg contends that blowing up existing systems creates more risk than reward. The result is one of the podcast’s most philosophical debates about competition, infrastructure, and the future of real estate.

Key Takeaways

  • Greg explains the premise of his “Poking the Bear” article and why he believes the industry should be careful about forcing Zillow into a more direct competitive role.
  • The hosts discuss whether a national Zillow brokerage or franchise would be a serious threat to existing brokerages and brands.
  • Rob argues that direct competition is preferable to the current situation because brokerages know how to compete against other brokerages, franchises, and MLSs.
  • Greg questions whether Compass’s evolution into a larger conglomerate could create opportunities for boutique and independent brokerage models.
  • The discussion shifts to MLS infrastructure, with Rob arguing that cooperation—not marketing—is the true value proposition of the MLS system.
  • Rob and Greg debate whether IDX remains relevant in its current form and whether it should become an opt-in rather than opt-out system.
  • The hosts explore the difference between cooperation data and marketing data, and whether those functions should be separated moving forward.
  • Greg argues that unrestricted competition could create unintended consequences, while Rob maintains that open competition ultimately benefits consumers.
  • The episode closes with a larger conversation about preserving what makes the U.S. real estate market unique while adapting to new competitive realities.

Links

Greg’s Article

Connect with Rob and Greg

Rob’s Website 

Greg’s Website 

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Our Sponsors:

Cotality 

Notorious VIP

The Giant Steps Job Board 

Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios

Fixing Home Affordability One Room at a Time With Atticus LeBlanc of PadSplit

The Listing Bits Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

Greg Robertson sits down with Atticus LeBlanc, founder and CEO of PadSplit, to discuss the affordable housing crisis and how room-by-room rentals can create housing opportunities for people who are priced out of traditional apartments. Atticus shares his journey from commercial real estate broker to housing entrepreneur, the origins of PadSplit during the Great Financial Crisis, and how the company has grown from a single prototype house to more than 33,000 beds nationwide.

The conversation explores shared housing, affordability challenges, real estate investing, and the role technology can play in expanding access to housing. Key Takeaways Atticus grew up in New Orleans, studied Architecture and Urban Studies at Yale University, and credits competitive swimming with teaching resilience and persistence. After entering commercial real estate during the early stages of the housing crash, he discovered an overlooked opportunity in room-by-room housing. A chance encounter with tenants Mitch and Otis led to his first rooming-house experiment, revealing strong demand from renters who couldn’t qualify for traditional apartments.

PadSplit was founded in 2017 to provide the operational and technology infrastructure needed to make shared housing scalable. The platform functions similarly to Airbnb, connecting hosts with renters while handling marketing, screening, payments, move-ins, and support. Many PadSplit residents are workers earning modest incomes who are unable to meet traditional apartment qualification requirements despite having stable employment. The company has grown from 82 beds in 2018 to roughly 33,000 beds today. Shared housing can help homeowners offset mortgage costs and create pathways toward real estate investing.

Atticus argues that local market knowledge often matters more than national data when identifying successful housing opportunities. The average PadSplit resident stays about nine and a half months, though many remain for years due to the affordability and stability the model provides.

Links

Padsplit

Atticus on LinkedIn

Sponsors

Aligned Showings — MLS-owned showing software built to simplify scheduling, improve communication, and keep MLS data where it belongs.

Giant Steps Job Board – Built for organized real estate and PropTech, not generic tech bros and recruiters who don’t know what an MLS is.

Production and editing services by: Sunbound Studios

There and back again, the IDX debate continues.

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

Rob and Greg dive into a major discussion about IDX, MLS rules, private listings, and whether MLSs should still control listing distribution in 2026. Using a Twitter exchange with Michael Wurzer as the jumping-off point, they unpack the history of VOWs, syndication, Zillow’s rise, and whether the industry is still operating on outdated internet-era assumptions.

Key Takeaways

  • Michael Wurzer’s IDX question leads into a larger conversation about MLS governance.
  • Greg argues MLSs could handle private listings with simple status changes.
  • Rob argues IDX was never intended to become the industry’s primary listing distribution system.
  • The history of ListHub, Realtor.com, Zillow, and syndication reshaping the industry is revisited.
  • Rob proposes MLSs focus only on cooperation while brokers control distribution themselves.
  • Greg pushes back on whether replacing IDX is actually simpler than adapting it.

Links

X Thread

Connect with Rob and Greg

Rob’s Website 

Greg’s Website 

Watch us on YouTube

Our Sponsors:

Cotality 

Notorious VIP

The Giant Steps Job Board 

Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios

The Struggle is Real

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

This episode starts with Greg discussing Giant Steps’ new MLS channel guidebook and the growing difficulty vendors face navigating organized real estate. Rob and Greg unpack how MLS relationships, site licenses, and enterprise deals have changed, why vendor distribution is getting harder, and how AI could completely reshape SaaS and real estate technology business models. The conversation then shifts into AI as “labor” rather than just software, token-based economics, infrastructure wars between Zillow, Compass, and the MLS ecosystem, and how the fallout from Sitzer/Burnett continues to reshape the industry. They also debate BLX, MLS cooperation, and whether MLSs are behaving more like governments than businesses.

Key Takeaways

  • Greg explains why MLS site-license deals are becoming rarer and why vendors increasingly need direct-to-agent strategies.
  • Rob compares MLSs to government bureaucracies and argues vendors often need “lobbyists” to navigate the system.
  • Discussion on AI shifting from a SaaS tool to a labor replacement model powered by compute and tokens.
  • Rob and Greg explore how Zillow, Compass, and MLSs are competing to become the core infrastructure layer of real estate.
  • Debate over whether BLX strengthens MLS cooperation or creates a path around traditional MLS systems.
  • The long-term ripple effects of Sitzer/Burnett continue to reshape technology, brokerage, and listing distribution strategies.

Links

The MLS Channel Field Guide – From Giant Steps

Connect with Rob and Greg

Rob’s Website 

Greg’s Website 

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Our Sponsors:

Cotality 

Notorious VIP

The Giant Steps Job Board 

Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios

BLX, Zillow, MRED, and Fight for Control

The Industry Relations Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

Rob and Greg react to Cotality’s launch of BLX, a new broker-focused listing input platform that immediately sparks debate over whether it’s a defensive move against portals or “Project Upstream” all over again. They dig into broker control, MLS compliance, native Matrix integration, and whether MLSs were blindsided by the launch.

They also discuss Zillow filing suit against MRED and Compass over private listings, leading into a larger conversation about industry framing, consumer transparency, and whether Zillow has become an unofficial regulator of real estate.

Key Takeaways

  • Cotality launched BLX, a broker listing input and distribution platform aimed at streamlining listing management across MLSs and portals.
  • Rob questions whether BLX effectively bypasses MLS authority and compares it directly to Project Upstream.
  • Greg argues the product is more about preserving MLS relevance as brokers increasingly use portal-based listing input systems.
  • Debate over whether MLSs were informed ahead of the BLX launch and how major Matrix customers may react.
  • Discussion around broker control vs. MLS compliance rules, especially regarding listing distribution and branding.
  • Zillow sued MRED and Compass over private listings and alleged restriction of competition.
  • Rob and Greg debate Zillow’s influence over consumer perception and whether portals should be shaping

Connect with Rob and Greg

Rob’s Website 

Greg’s Website 

Watch us on YouTube

Our Sponsors:

Cotality 

Notorious VIP

The Giant Steps Job Board 

Production and Editing Services by Sunbound Studios

Brian Boero on Storytelling, Signal, and What Comes Next for MLS

The Listing Bits Podcast is now available on your favorite podcast player!

Overview

Greg Robertson sits down with Brian Boero of 1000Watt to talk about the current state of organized real estate, the future of the MLS, AI’s impact on SaaS and marketing, and why writing and storytelling still matter in an AI-driven world. They also preview 1000Watt’s upcoming Signal Conference and discuss a new “next generation MLS” concept the team is developing for the event. 

Key Takeaways

  • Brian explains how 1000Watt blends strategic advisory work with branding, messaging, and design. 
  • Greg and Brian discuss why strong writing is still a critical skill, even as AI tools become more common. 
  • The conversation dives into private listings, MLS relevance, and the growing tension between brokerages, portals, and organized real estate. 
  • Brian shares his core belief: “don’t mess with homes,” arguing that limiting access to listings could ultimately hurt the industry. 
  • Greg and Brian discuss how AI may fundamentally reshape proptech, SaaS, and vendor business models over the next few years. 
  • Signal Conference preview: 1000Watt will unveil a conceptual “future MLS” complete with branding, governance ideas, and a proposed business model. 

Links

Sponsors

Aligned Showings — MLS-owned showing software built to simplify scheduling, improve communication, and keep MLS data where it belongs.

Giant Steps Job Board – Built for organized real estate and PropTech, not generic tech bros and recruiters who don’t know what an MLS is.

Production and editing services by:

Sunbound Studios

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